best way to change piston rings?

[ugly american]

what is the best way to replace worn out piston rings? do i need to take out the motor? or can i get to it from underneath? thank you for the help!
-gregor

[LEiPiE]

You won't need to remove the engine. You do need to remove quite a lot though (but nothing more than you would when you would take the engine out).
If you remove the cilinder head and the oilsump (oilpan?), you can access the pistons. From the underside, you can remove the bolts and then the pistons can be removed on the top.
Putting them back in requires a piston ring compressor (or a DIY solution) and a lot of oil.

[ugly american]

LEiPie-

that is great news! i wonder, does the exhaust system all need to come off? or should i leave the manifold where it sits attached to the cilinder head and just take off the silencer and the "j"pipe? i JUST replaced the half moon shaped cork gaskets on the carterpan (oilpan) so i know how that goes, any other things to look out for? thanks!
-gregor

[ugly american]

i am starting this work this week. the handboeken is very helpful. now...how to convert the torque settings? very excited to get the bus running again soon!
-gregor

[Ree]

Do you mean the conversion from kg/m to N/m? 1 kg/m is about 10 N/m.

[ugly american]

i think the problem is not the rings. i think it is the cilinderkop koppakking.
what do you think? this is before i cleaned it:




this is after i cleaned the scale off of the kleppen:




this is the nummer 4 cilinder ,looks like the koppakking is bad. is that grey oil on the front of nummer 4 from a leaky head gasket?



there does not appear to be any bad scratching inside the cilinder.


here is the cilinder:

[ugly american]

i need a new cilinder head

[LEiPiE]

Why would you say that? Are there any cracks in it or so?
A photo will help
From the previous pictures it looks like the head gasket (koppakking) might have been leaking, but they are often dirty after so many years, so I can't really tell. The rust next to the cilinder is not that bad, just an indication that the cooling water either had no additives (thus, plain water maybe), or has not been refreshed in a long time... that can cause rust in the cooling system.

I've read everything back, but I can't find what the symptoms are that you wanted to fix by changing the piston rings.
Does the motor use a lot of oil? Does it produce thick black/blue smoke in the exhaust? 'cause that would be the main reasons to change the piston rings.

The more symptoms you describe, the better

[ugly american]

Why would you say that? Are there any cracks in it or so?
A photo will help
From the previous pictures it looks like the head gasket (koppakking) might have been leaking, but they are often dirty after so many years, so I can't really tell. The rust next to the cilinder is not that bad, just an indication that the cooling water either had no additives (thus, plain water maybe), or has not been refreshed in a long time... that can cause rust in the cooling system.

I've read everything back, but I can't find what the symptoms are that you wanted to fix by changing the piston rings.
Does the motor use a lot of oil? Does it produce thick black/blue smoke in the exhaust? 'cause that would be the main reasons to change the piston rings.

The more symptoms you describe, the better

i removed the heads and replaced the gasket with no problem, except two. the first problem was that when i tightened the bolt that holds the oil tube to the front of the head( on the block behind the 'bobine') it stripped out! the second problem came when i tightened the nut that holds the exhaust valve rocker arm (uitlaatkleppen) in place for cylinder nummer 1,it also was stripped. i was very, very careful to not over tighten them but i guess it is just old metal? the valves are rough and worn in on the faces, since this is the case i have decided that its best to just get a new one and return this one to the warehouse in heez.the original problem was a persistent white smoke from the oil fill cap on the head and also a lot more white smoke from the exhaust. it got worse over the past few months , the power is fine ,although i havent yet done a full compression check, i figure i might as well just rebuild the whole motor and then it will run well for many more years i hope. it made no difference at all after i put the new koppakking in. it ran just as well and sounded great when i first fired it up, but the smoke was still there! i was pretty happy i put it all back together and it started on the first try! but sad to see the same smoke oh well!

[Otje]

1) before placing a new cylinder head gasket you need to have de cylinder head sharpened
2) white smoke means the cooling water mixes with the engine oil and finally gets into the cylinders - due of a damaged cylinder head gasket (take a look into the filling opening of the engine oil: it will look like "mayonnaise") and/or a damaged surface of the cylinder head
3) bolt of the oil tube: often breaks down. need a new one
4) exhaust valve rocker arm: maybe possible to remove the old stud and put a new one instead ?
Others: maybe better indeed to order a restaurated/renewed cylinder head. There are many more parts in this head wich have to be renewed ... wich would mean a long technical story overhere.
As probably you won't have all particular special technical parts/tools needed to recover the cylinder head properly you (like many of us !) 'll have to let it over to the specialists overhere in the Netherlands.
Over all it seems to be a rough car but it (specially the motor etc.) still needs a lot of accuracy !
Success !

[ugly american]

1) before placing a new cylinder head gasket you need to have de cylinder head sharpened
2) white smoke means the cooling water mixes with the engine oil and finally gets into the cylinders - due of a damaged cylinder head gasket (take a look into the filling opening of the engine oil: it will look like "mayonnaise") and/or a damaged surface of the cylinder head
3) bolt of the oil tube: often breaks down. need a new one
4) exhaust valve rocker arm: maybe possible to remove the old stud and put a new one instead ?
Others: maybe better indeed to order a restaurated/renewed cylinder head. There are many more parts in this head wich have to be renewed ... wich would mean a long technical story overhere.
As probably you won't have all particular special technical parts/tools needed to recover the cylinder head properly you (like many of us !) 'll have to let it over to the specialists overhere in the Netherlands.
Over all it seems to be a rough car but it (specially the motor etc.) still needs a lot of accuracy !
Success !

dank u! i will send it to citroenhyteam , i will put up more pictures of the work!

[ugly american]

gebroken zuigerveer cilinder nummer vier! pictures soon.
-gregor

[ugly american]

cilinder #4

but it is stamped #1 ?!


the first cilinder ring( zuigerveer?) was in two pieces

[ugly american]

any trick to remove the "sleeves" of the cilinder? tap out from underneath? i don't want to harm the block!

[Otje]

Gregor:
you didn't secure the cylinders before pulling out de pistons ? (see second photo)
Because now you might losen the foot gasket of the cylinders and then you 'll have to renew them too !
You will notice that all first cylinder rings (and maybe more !) will be broken with an engine that old. As far as I know there are no special tools for placing the cylinder rings, so: (carefull) hand job ...
And, as Leipi wrote:

Putting them back in requires a piston ring compressor (or a DIY solution) and a lot of oil.

But ... a little "handyman" finds his own solution ! (see first photo) With a large hose clamp ...
Succes !
Gert